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In many ways the other carriers are as much to blame, refusing to carry high end devices like the HTC Touch HD that might have had a hope of competing with the iPhone for consumer's business. I'm really hoping the upcoming Droid on Verizon lives up to the hype. AT&T's network IS getting to be an issue for me, and if the Droid can match the experience, I may very well jump...
Android was released after the iPhone, so it can't have been trying to catch for 2.5 years.
Also, while the iPhone may provide the best browsing experience (although I suspect Android may compare fairly well), I doubt that the iPhone provides the best experience for everything. For example, doesn't BlackBerry still provide the best E-mail experience? How about GPS or MMS experiences?
Even for Web apps (those accessed through an application, not the browser), why would the iPhone have any advantage? The UI is determined by the developer, not the browser.
Steve
I'm the minority, but I find the BlackBerry email experience to be fairly painful. My company makes me use a Blackberry for corporate mail, and I find it worse than either the iPhone or Windows Mobile, for that matter -- WM with Flexmail has been my favorite so far. I'm using Navigon for GPS on the iPhone and it works well, it's fast and reponsive, not sure any of the other platforms is really any better or worse, though WM has a reputation for being finicky with ports, etc.
Regarding WebApps, the advantage is the iPhone renders pages faster and more accurately than other portable browser, the combination of hardware/software is compelling.
Not sure what your point is, other than to be contrary.... Can you name a device in circulation in the US that provides the same out of box internet experience? The public has spoken, and they say the iPhone works (trashing ATT's network in the process) and so far nothing else has gained that kind of traction. Microsoft spent years trying purposely holding back usability in WM simply to protect their desktop cash cow, and now they are spouting ridiculous things like "The internet wasn't meant for phones", as if technology can never evolve....
Let me clarify it, then. You said:
If I drop everything but Android, it sounds like you were saying that Android hasn't caught up after 2.5 years. Well, of course it hasn't, since it hasn't been on the market that long.
Maybe that's not what you meant (as your clarification pointed out), but that's what it sounded like when I first read your post.
See below....
I think we're talking about two different things. "Rendering pages" means you're talking about the browser, but I specifically said "those accessed through an application, not the browser" (like many Twitter and Facebook apps). I presume they use Web APIs to get data without needing any page rendering. So, again, I see no reason why the iPhone has any inherent advantage at Web apps.
I thought that I was pretty clear when I said "I doubt that the iPhone provides the best experience for everything." You seemed to agree when you said (above) that Windows Mobile with Flexmail provided the best E-mail experience.
I'm not qualified to answer that. I haven't tried many devices (other than the Windows Mobile phones I've had), but when I have tried the iPhone, I wasn't impressed with the Web experience -- not because of the browser, but because of the keyboard, which I found difficult to type on. Plus, until recently, you couldn't copy and paste from Web pages (something Pocket PCs could do pretty much from the beginning). (To be fair, though, the new iPhone copy/paste function seems awesome. I wish PCs would implement that scheme with handles at each end of the selection.)
Nonetheless, I'll accept that the iPhone currently has the best Web browsing experience, but that isn't everything. Even restricting things to the Internet, it isn't everything -- E-mail, IMing, video streaming, Flash, etc. all count toward the "Internet experience".
First, can you cite a reference for that comment? Microsoft has included IE in every version of Windows CE/Pocket PC/Windows Mobile/Windows Phone that I know of, so they obviously thought it could be useful.
In fact, I recall Palm criticizing the Pocket PC for including a "full" Web browser because small screens weren't good for the Web; Palm thought its Web clipping was much better. Of course, they also criticized the Pocket PC for its media player (who needs that in a business PDA?) and color screens (they suck battery life).
Second, I don't think they held back usability to protect Windows, although they probably did hold back functionality (for example, not supporting more robust versions of Office Mobile until WM 5 or so -- and not on Smartphones at all until WM 6).
Microsoft sat on its laurels too long, though, and let the iPhone capture people's imaginations.
Finally, the Internet wasn't meant for phones. The Internet was created well before cell phones. Even the Web wasn't originally meant for phones (cell phones weren't ubiquitous when the Web was created).
Yes, technology has evolved to the point where we can shoehorn a decent experience into a phone, but can you honestly say that if you had an iPhone and a PC in the same room that you'd choose the iPhone for browsing over the PC?
Maybe what should have been said was that the Internet (Web) isn't optimal for phones.
Steve
(And, for the record, I am still waiting for cut/copy/paste on my WM phone. It would be incredibly useful for pasting passwords from eWallet into a browser password prompt.)
As for the web apps thing, I think that it is easy for you guys to have confused each other, as Apple uses the term for application icons that are clipped from Safari, as opposed to full apps that you buy from the app store. So, web apps, by definition, are fast at rendering because Safari is fast at rendering (or vice versa), since they are actually using Safari to render.
Show me one place where I came even remotely close to saying that. :P
My point was that the iPhone isn't the best at everything. Whether the iPhone is better than a Windows Mobile device for a given user is an individual decision. All anybody else can do is lay out the pros and cons to help with a decision.
If an iPhone works better for somebody than a WM phone does, that's cool with me. It doesn't hurt me, so why would I care? I just get annoyed when people make it seem like the iPhone is perfect or that people who use Windows Mobile are stupid or behind the times.
Really? I copy passwords from eWallet without any problems (I just copied one from eWallet to OneNote just to prove it), and I think every Pocket PC has been able to do that.
Do you have a pre-WM 6.1 Smartphone (which didn't have copy/paste)? If so, you need VITO CopyPaste (which doesn't seem to be available at their Web site anymore; use my Contact form if you want a copy). It only works in text entry fields (so you can't copy text from Web pages), but you should be able to copy from eWallet and paste into Web forms. Oh, and it is (was?) free. :D
Steve
I am anything but an Apple Fanboy, having used WM devices for more than 10 years before the iPhone came along. For me the iPhone is simply better today. Not to say that is true for everyone, I'm quite certain it's not. However, you sound very much like all the Palm apologists I met on message boards back when WM came out. (The Palm is easier, I don't need color, MS sux, etc...) You are defending a platform that has failed to innovate and is now paying the price.
And for the record, yes MS offered crappy PIE since the get go, and did such a poor job with the offereing, that few wanted to use it any length (including me). I feel, that MS, in large part crippled PIE, because they wanted to make sure users had to also use a desktop device. The Pocket PC was a "companion" device and I'm pretty sure they purposely crippled office and PIE to make sure it stayed that way.
It's great that you like Windows Mobile, and that it suits your needs. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But it doesn't change the facts that MS basically ignored this platform for the last decade, and left the door open for Apple to provide a better on-the-go experience for a majority of consumers---at least as far as consumers are concerned.
Aside from the PIM applications, there are few things WM does better than the iPhone today. And the difference in the PIM apps is not enough to make up for all that the iPhone does better. Yes, you can multi-task out of the box (until the unit slows to a crawl because of lack of memory), but I too muti-task on the iPhone thanks to jailbreak. I'm curious what else you think you can do with WM that you can't do with the iPhone today.
My original statement was that the iPhone was the first device to deliver a great internet experience. You somehow (perhaps because of some hidden desire to defend WM?) decided that meant everything.....and started the whole contrary argument I pointed out.
And argumentum ad populum is still a logical fallacy the last time I checked. :D
The reason I brought up "everything" is because the Internet isn't everything. Smart phones do more than just access the Internet.
And, again, you (like many people) misuse "Internet" when you mean "Web". The Internet includes IRC, E-mail, FTP, SSH, IMing, etc. How is the iPhone at all of those?
An apologist? You just said almost exactly what I said (Microsoft rested on their laurels). How is that being an apologist?
I've also given props to the iPhone many times for improving the Web experience, and have listed many flaws with Windows Mobile and it's experience (see my editorials).
I'm just pointing out that Windows Mobile still does many things better than the iPhone does. For some people, that may be important; for you, it may not be.
I wouldn't say that Microsoft "ignored" the platform for a decade -- heck, it's only been around since 1997 or 1998. They've certainly released significant updates every year or two.
What Microsoft failed to do was innovate significantly. They made steady, obvious improvements to the platform (supporting different resolutions, supporting Bluetooth, supporting WiFi, supporting GPS, improving Office Mobile, improving Pocket IE, adding Office Mobile to the Smartphone version, etc.) but they didn't do much really new.
The iPhone did by taking the smart phone in a comparatively new direction, with capacitive screens and multitouch and a superior browser (plus an easy way of updating the software, which is a big win for Apple), and that captured people's imaginations which Microsoft's steady, plodding improvements didn't.
Jailbreaking isn't for everybody. Doesn't it void your warranty and/or violate your terms of service?
As for what WM can do that the iPhone can't, it's not really about that -- it's about what WM can do better. I don't hang out in the App Store, so I'm not familiar with everything there, but I'll try for some.
* You mentioned E-mail (with Flexmail)
* Until recently, GPS software was a big win for WM. I've heard the iPhone has third-party navigation now, but do they work in the background (for example, when a phone call or text message comes in)?
* I've heard the iPhone doesn't support Bluetooth AVRCP even though they (finally) supported A2DP
* Drawing/painting (a stylus is much more precise than a finger)
* Control my Slingbox (unless Apple finally approved the app)
* Remote management (important for corporate users, not so much for consumers)
If you actually want a list of things WM (or WM devices) can do that the iPhone can't (without jailbreaking or hardware mods), here are three:
* Installing software from any place
* Replacing your battery (on most devices)
* Displaying 800x480 images without having to scroll or zoom (on some devices)
* Typing with a real keyboard (on many devices)
* Work in harsh conditions (there are rugged WM devices, but no rugged iPhones)
* Handle Top Secret voice and Secret E-mail communications (the General Dynamics Sectera Edge)
Yes, most of those are attributes of devices that use WM, not necessarily inherent in WM, but they are advantages that WM devices (and, for some at least, Android and Palm and Nokia devices) have that the
iPhone can't do.
For your average consumer, though, I'll grant that the iPhone is a better experience than Windows Mobile (although WM shells and third-party browsers certainly narrow that difference). For business and specialized users, though, the iPhone probably takes no better than third place (behind the BlackBerry and WM).
Steve
Well, you said:
"Microsoft sat on its laurels too long, though, and let the iPhone capture people's imaginations."
They captured people's imagination? So, people are imagining that they think that the iPhone is better? Or is it, perhaps, simply a better device, period, for the people who bought them?
And, I own a WM 6 Smartphone. Never had copy/paste, I guess that it never will (because if I wait for Verizon/Motorola/Microsoft/whoever to deliver a firmware update that adds CCPI fear that I will be waiting for an infinite time.) So, I need some third party app? No thanks - I avoid most of them like the plague. I'll just upgrade to a phone that actually has CCP when my contract is up.
As for Copy/Paste, why be so stubborn? If a piece of third-party software solves a problem you've admitted having, only a masochist wouldn't use it. It's free, small and it works well (I used it on my Motrola Q and Motorla Q9m).
Steve
If you meant your second-to-last post (with the wink), I did see the smiley but took the opportunity to elaborate on the discussion. That doesn't mean that I missed it. ;)
Steve